Amendments

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Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:20 am

Okay, so now that our government is really starting to take shape, we have to ask ourselves how do we want to be able to amend our constitution in future?

i have an idea, tell me what you guys think

any amendment must be passed through the Assembly with a 66% margin, approved by the Premier, and if 'vetoed' by the Premier, the Assembly can over ride with 75%.

seeing as this is our 'guidebook' persay to our region, i think amendments should be harder, rather then easier to pass.


Last edited by Serenel on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Amendments

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:23 am

Serenel wrote:Okay, so now that our government is really starting to take shape, we have to ask ourselves how do we want to be able to amend our constitution in future?

i have an idea, tell me what you guys think

any amendment must be passed through the Assembly with a 66% margin, approved by the Premier, and if 'vetoed' by the Premier, the Assembly can over ride with 75%.

seeing as this is our 'guidebook' persay to our region, i think amendments should be harder, rather then easier to pass.

Yeah, I think this is a pretty good model. I would be willing to go along with that. 2/3 majority required in the Assembly to pass the Amendment, then goes up for Veto. 3/4 majority to override veto. Seems pretty legitimate to me. How does everyone else feel?

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Re: Amendments

Post  Knights Inquisitor on Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:27 am

I think it is very important to allow for amendments because we never know if we may miss a simple but important law or rule that would be very difficult to deal with in absentia. The 2/3 pass, 3/4 veto override is a sound plan for dealing with possible amendments.
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Re: Amendments

Post  River on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:27 am

As was stated, a supermajority to pass and 3/4 to override a veto.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Knights Inquisitor on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:13 am

So far, four of us are in agreement. What say the others?
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:48 pm

Are we going to include the power/duty/right for the Premier to 're-write' what he/she does not like about the proposed bill/amendment?

If so I think he/she should submit that to the legis, and then they should pass it after it may have been vetoed?

And I am okay with the 2/3 and 3/4 model.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:10 pm

no, the Premier would not have the power to re-write the amendment.

he can use his influence, and seeing as how the Speaker will also be his Deputy, as a tool to steer the Assembly if he wishes.

but if he doenst like the amendment, all he can do is veto it, or swallow his pride and sign off on it.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:34 pm

When I say re-write I don't mean re-write and then pass it, I mean re-write it and resubmit it to the Assembly for readdressing.

Like what the President of the Confederate States of America could do.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Well i mean, we could def include it if that is what everyone wants.

i personally though see that as giving the Premier too much power.

however that is only my opinion.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:07 pm

No see this isn't actually a power, because the Assembly has the right to disregard his suggested altercations and continue on with the overriding vote.

This is just something that the Premier can use to show what he thinks is wrong with the Bill/Amendment.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:13 pm

No, you are correct, it isnt a 'absolute' power, meaning it isnt final.

but is still a power to in a informal way direct the assembly as to how it should do its job.

that is somthing i do not agree with, seeing as how the Speaker is already his Deputy.

but if others want it, then that is fine by me


Last edited by Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:18 pm

Fair enough Smile
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Re: Amendments

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:59 pm

Serenel wrote:No, you are correct, it isnt a 'absolute' power, meaning it isnt final.

but is still a power to in a informal way direct the assembly as to how it should do its job.

that is somthing i do not agree with, seeing as how the Speaker is already his Deputy.

but if others want it, then that is fine by me

Well, if I were Premier I would be exerting my influence over the Assembly, or at least attempting to. I would be offering opinions, perhaps just informally, but I would be attempting to influence decisions, nonetheless.

As long as the Premier has no 'real' authority in the Assembly, aside from veto power, I think that's good.

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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:05 pm

of course to a certian extent the Premier will exert a sort of influence over the Assembly, especially through his Deputy, and personal conversations with other Assembly Members.

i just think him vetoing the act with a list of his 'demands' pretty much, is a bit too much.

but like i said, it isnt something i am dead set against.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:11 pm

Serenel wrote:of course to a certian extent the Premier will exert a sort of influence over the Assembly, especially through his Deputy, and personal conversations with other Assembly Members.

i just think him vetoing the act with a list of his 'demands' pretty much, is a bit too much.

but like i said, it isnt something i am dead set against.

If I were Premier, I would rather like to refer to it as a 'bill of recommendations'...

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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:14 pm

a rose by any other name...surely
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Re: Amendments

Post  Architektonikon on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:40 pm

all of this sounds fair to me
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Re: Amendments

Post  TheRonald on Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:47 pm

sounds good to me

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Re: Amendments

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:51 pm

Very glad we mostly seem to be in agreement. Serenel, toss this on the stack of "accepted terms" for the Constitution.

Bang.

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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:58 pm

sounds good to me.

unless there is a flood of posts stateing otherwise, this is considered finalized.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:05 am

okay, so what do you guys think?

i kind of just slapped this together, so look through it, and make sure it doesnt have any wholes, and the language is correct/clear.

Section V- Amendments

Article A- The Power to amend

1. This Constitution may be amended by the General Assembly of The Dirty South, with the consent of the Premier of the Dirty South, or by a Super Majority of the General Assembly as defined by this constitution, in the absence of the consent of the Premier.


Article B- The Process

1. At anytime the General Assembly may propose a Constitutional Amendment in the form of a motion for debate within the General Assembly.

2. When asked by the sponsor of the motion, the Speaker of the General Assembly shall move the motion to a separate forum for voting by the whole General Assembly.

3. The motion must receive at least 66% of the votes cast in favor in order to be considered successful.

4. If the motion gains the needed support, it shall be presented to the Premier of the Dirty South, by the Speaker of the Assembly.

5. At this time the Premier can choose to either sign the Amendment, at which time it will come into effect, or come into effect if stated to do so by language contained in the motion at the prescribed time. Or the Premier may choose to veto the motion, in which case the Premier shall send the motion back to the General Assembly, and may attach a letter of recommendation, which could contain his thoughts, reservations, and disagreeability of the motion, among other things.

6. At this time the General Assembly shall precede to debate the motion further, where it may take into consideration the Premiers letter of recommendation and either choose to follow it, resulting in a new motion where the process laid out in Section V, Article B, Clause 1-5 shall be repeated. Or it can proceed to a vote to over-ride the Premier’s veto.

7. In the event the General Assembly should seek to override the veto of the Premier, the Amendment, in the form of the motion would have to attain the threshold of 75% of the votes cast in favor to over-ride the veto of the Premier.

8. At such a time the Premier’s veto is overridden, the Amendment will come into effect immediately or at such a time that is prescribed within the language of the Amendment.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:20 pm

What is the definition of 'Super Majority' like 75% of all who voted excluding absent voters but including abstained votes?
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Re: Amendments

Post  Serenel on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:51 pm

I dont think Abstain will be a choice in votes, it will probably be either oppose or in favor, or something like that.

i personally dont see the point of abstain...if you abstain you just dont vote, and if you want to make a statement, you can just post i am abstaining, because if you vote abstaining, your not making a statement, because no one will ever know it was you who abstained in the first place.....lol.

but a super majority i tried to lay out in Article B, Clause 5, that 75% is needed to over-ride the Premier, thanks for the heads up on the inclarity, i will try to fix that.
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Re: Amendments

Post  Anglenburgh on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Okey dokey, I see Very Happy
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Cleaned up version...

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:33 am

As always Serenel, I cleaned it up a bit. Some of the clauses were a bit 'off', so I worked a little grammar magic to make certain areas read more fluidly.

Article B, Clauses 5&6 were edited and "cleaned up", although the ideas were maintained.

Here it is, let me know what you think about the updated version:


Section V- Amendments

Article A- The Power to amend


1. This Constitution may be amended by the General Assembly of The Dirty South, with the consent of the Premier of the Dirty South, or by a Super Majority of the General Assembly as defined by this constitution, in the absence of the consent of the Premier.


Article B- The Process


1. At anytime the General Assembly may propose a Constitutional Amendment in the form of a motion for debate within the General Assembly.

2. When asked by the sponsor of the motion, the Speaker of the General Assembly shall move the motion to a separate forum for voting by the whole General Assembly.

3. The motion must receive at least 66% of the votes cast in favor in order to be considered successful.

4. If the motion gains the needed support, it shall be presented to the Premier of the Dirty South by the Speaker of the Assembly.

5. At this time the Premier can choose to either sign the Amendment, at which time it will come into effect (or come into effect at a prescribed time stated by language in the motion), or the Premier may choose to veto the motion, in which case the Premier shall send the motion back to the General Assembly. The Premier may also attach a letter of recommendation, which may contain his thoughts, reservations, and disagreements with the motion, among other things.

6. At this time the General Assembly shall proceed to debate the motion further, where it may take into consideration the Premiers letter of recommendation and either choose to follow the recommendation, resulting in a new motion where the process laid out in Section V, Article B, Clause 1-5 shall be repeated, or the General Assembly can move forward with a vote to override the Premier’s veto.

7. In the event the General Assembly should seek to override the veto of the Premier, the Amendment, in the form of the motion, must attain a threshold of 75% of the votes cast in favor to override the veto of the Premier.

8. At such a time the Premier’s veto is overridden, the Amendment will come into effect immediately or at such a time that is prescribed within the language of the Amendment.

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