General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

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How should the regional delegate vote on General Assembly Resolution: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"?

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:20 pm

Yeah, those pesky 'Geneva Conventions', nobody pays attention anyways.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  The True Horde on Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:28 pm

Cool Egg Sandwich wrote:
Anglenburgh wrote:Against! This is total garbage... The WA needs to step up their game and propose things that matter Laughing

So the mutilation of bodies in wartime isn't an important international matter to you??

I pose this question: What if, hypothetically, your mother was a red cross nurse, and she was taking care of US soldiers in the battlefield. Say also that said US soldiers were defeated in battle, and your mother's "protection" along with it. Say I raped and brutally tortured your mother, and took pictures of her naked, bleeding body and posted them on the web.

Still don't support legislation like this?



A little extreme lol. I voted 'for'. The one last thing any human deserves (innocent or guilty) is a proper burial with their family.


I would love to further discuss this but I am on break at work. My apologies but I am just staying involved.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:50 pm

I'm sure glad Thrall decided to grace us peons with his presence...

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Jerksborough on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:12 pm

Cool Egg Sandwich wrote:Yeah, those pesky 'Geneva Conventions', nobody pays attention anyways.

They don't. Take all of the allegations of what happened at Guantanamo Bay for example. Countries in real life pay attention to the Geneva Conventions when it suits them to do so. If it doesn't, they claim that they don't have to play by the rules because of some minor detail like whether or not a person qualifies as an enemy combatant...

I'm sorry, but I still believe that this legislation is flawed. In theory, yes, it is good legislation and should be passed. In practice, it doesn't matter, and so the WA ought to spend its time on more important things.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:18 pm

Yeah, all you really have to do is 'outsource' the torture to countries / regions where that international law does not apply. I guess I should clarify, I meant to be sarcastic with that comment, that is true, but it is definitely a sad truth in the real world that nations commit various humans rights abuses, or support governments who commit human rights abuses.

It is what it is. I still don't think that is the best reason to say that legislation can't work in a game. Being in the World Assembly is very fun for me personally for just this reason: debating the merits of all sides of an argument, and hopefully making the most informed decision. It just saddens me to see that this legislation isn't seen as being 'important' or 'enforceable'. I am just a sad, sad panda.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:20 pm

a sad sexual harrasment panda?
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:23 pm

Serenel wrote:

and be honest, WA nations are just as unaffected by this legislation as non-WA nations. Even if the WA had a 'mechinism' through which to enforce this law, the enforcement is just so low that it leads to no real punishment and therefore leads to no real desire for other nations to follow the resolution.

Just to let you know Serenel, this is completely untrue. Membership in the World Assembly directly affects the laws of your nation. Whenever legislation is passed in the World Assembly, member nation's laws are brought into compliance with the legislation. Your government statistics / freedoms are changed via legislation from the World Assembly, as well. Saying that WA nations are just as unaffected by legislation as non-WA nations is nothing more than a misinformed statement.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:25 pm

With in the time i have spent with in the WA my nation has never been effected by anything it passed.

i still got the same issues, i still decided upon them the same way if i was or was not a member of the WA.

even more recently i have been in the WA, and i still have not been effected.

can you provide an example, or a source that shows with any significance that a nations issues were altered, he was not allowed to choose a certian way, or his nation was affected in any real way solely by his admission into the WA?
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:35 pm

Serenel wrote:With in the time i have spent with in the WA my nation has never been effected by anything it passed.

i still got the same issues, i still decided upon them the same way if i was or was not a member of the WA.

even more recently i have been in the WA, and i still have not been effected.

can you provide an example, or a source that shows with any significance that a nations issues were altered, he was not allowed to choose a certian way, or his nation was affected in any real way solely by his admission into the WA?

Well, your issues wouldn't be affected. For example, you will still get the issue that allows you to turn prisoners into "slaves", so to speak. What I 'assume' happens, as is implied by the information given on Nationstates.net World Assembly page, is that if you choose to make prisoners slaves (for example) there is no effect.

The following is a direct quote from the World Assembly FAQ page on Nationstates.net,

"The World Assembly is the world's governing body. It's your chance to mold the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will be affected by any resolutions that pass. (Unfortunately you can't obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations.)" Link here.

Further, this is the direct mission statement taken from the top of the World Assembly page on Nationstates.net,

"The WA is the world's governing body. Membership is voluntary, but all member nations must abide by legislation it passes." Link here.


Seems pretty clear-cut to me. Even the telegram that you get from the WA Commission when legislation passes,

"Laws have been enacted to bring [nation] into compliance with World Assembly Resolution blah blah blah"

I'm not sure how that could be mistaken...

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:40 pm

because it isnt real.

they say that, but just like some third world dictator claiming to wipe the united states off the map with nuclear weapons, it is said but isnt true or meaningful.

i am talking about legitamate cause and effect, not some telegram, or mission statement that claims something.

the UN houses psychotic dictatorships, and all the like...please...and your gonna tell me its resolutions really mean something.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:56 pm

Serenel wrote:because it isnt real.

they say that, but just like some third world dictator claiming to wipe the united states off the map with nuclear weapons, it is said but isnt true or meaningful.

i am talking about legitamate cause and effect, not some telegram, or mission statement that claims something.

the UN houses psychotic dictatorships, and all the like...please...and your gonna tell me its resolutions really mean something.

You can always choose to 'disregard' legislation, as many nations currently in the RL United Nations do, but legislation passed does have an effect on WA nations.

For example, GA Resolution #10 "Nuclear Arms Possession Act" was PASSED in the 'International Security' category, the goals of which are to "improve world security by boosting police and military budgets." When this legislation passed, military and police budgets increased mildly in WA member nations.

Similarly, GA Resolution #2 "Rights and Duties of WA States" was PASSED in the 'Political Stability' category, the goals of which are "to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order." When this legislation passed, Political Freedoms were slightly decreased in WA member nations.

The World Assembly is real; whether you would like to admit it or not, WA member nations have much more invested in the legislation than non-WA states. The legislation affects WA member nations, the outcomes are slight, although tangible. Just because it isn't a massive "game-breaking" concern, doesn't mean it should be brushed off as 'not real'...

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:24 pm

obviously the effects are not real because while it might go down for two seconds.

next thing you know another issus with in a nation is decided up that brings the catagory back up.

if it was tangable it would be impossible to get a 100/100 according to the current graphs and i am sure that their are nation states out their with a 100/100 in political freedom, even though the "Right and Duties of WA nations" passed.

just like i am sure that their are nations who spend 0% of their budget on defense.

thus showing that the resultions have no effect.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:38 pm

Serenel wrote:obviously the effects are not real because while it might go down for two seconds.

next thing you know another issus with in a nation is decided up that brings the catagory back up.

if it was tangable it would be impossible to get a 100/100 according to the current graphs and i am sure that their are nation states out their with a 100/100 in political freedom, even though the "Right and Duties of WA nations" passed.

just like i am sure that their are nations who spend 0% of their budget on defense.

thus showing that the resultions have no effect.

You continue to disregard textual information, including multiple links I have cited that directly affirm my position. Further, your arguments are purely anecdotal , and I see no facts backing them up. I am just going to stop posting I guess, because I don't want to debate something. I have already admitted to you that it is a 'slight' change, but the legislation does have an effect. The principle is the same, regardless of the scope of the impact.

I would be happy to take a look at some evidence regarding your arguments but until then they mean nothing.

If you have further questions regarding the World Assembly, please read the FAQ at this link

World Assembly FAQ


Seriously Serenel (and those who don't believe me), READ THAT LINK AND FAQ, it explains everything...

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:41 pm

For proof i submit the nation:

The Kingdom of African Business

Which has a rating of 100 for political freedoms and is a WA member.

and the nation:

The WCW Champion of ---Randy Orton---

which spends 0% of its budget on defense and is a WA member.

there is your proof that the WA is meaningless.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:46 pm

Serenel wrote:For proof i submit the nation:

The Kingdom of African Business

Which has a rating of 100 for political freedoms and is a WA member.

and the nation:

The WCW Champion of ---Randy Orton---

which spends 0% of its budget on defense and is a WA member.

there is your proof that the WA is meaningless.

Dude, you clearly didn't read the FAQ. Seriously man, take like fifteen minutes and read the darn FAQ that I linked in the previous link. I could quote passages from it, but it's much easier if you just read it. I know for a fact I am correct on this one, just humor me and read the FAQ...

Here is a direct quote regarding the Power of the NS World Assembly:


"Power of the NationStates World Assembly

Far too often persons will enter the WA forum and argue that the NationStates World Assembly does not have the power to enact the legislation that has been passed. As it happens, the NationStates World Assembly actually does have that power. If you are a member of the World Assembly during the period in which the resolution is coded, then the national statistics for your nation are changed according to the nature of the resolution. This is built into the very structure of the game, and there is nothing that can be done about it."

Pretty self-explanatory...

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:49 pm

/thread

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:56 pm

Obviously it doesnt effect the statistics Cool Eggs.

Even if you are a member of the WA and the resolution passes, once the individual nation gets another issue and decides accordingly the statistics are changed.

so yea, maybe for that day it slight changes a stupid stat, but that has no bearing on the game in any real or meaningful sense because it will just be covered up in future issues.

if it meant anything then it would mean a nation that was in the WA would permenently not be able to partake in the actions of the resolutions prohibit, but that is simply not the case.

you know WA nations are not effected by this, you just are trying to show, in technicalities that your stats may drop by one or two percentage points, which in itself is meaningless and in the game means nothing.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:06 am

The point remains. It has effects that are tangible on WA member nations.

You can't deny this fact, as it is documented in several places, and has been confirmed and sticked by Game Moderators. I really didn't mean to have this argument escalate to the level that it has, but ultimately I was correct.

There are effects on WA member nations that non-WA states do not face, that is an undeniable fact.

And your assertion that "maybe for that day it slight changes a stupid stat, but that has no bearing on the game in any real or meaningful sense because it will just be covered up in future issues" is not entirely true. The issues are completely random, and there is no guarantee you will receive particular issues that will bolster certain stats. Saying that WA Resolutions "maybe [affect nations] for that day" is just a dangerous exaggeration.

The fact that the affect is not necessarily permanent has no bearing on whether or not it exists.

Further you stated "you just are trying to show, in technicalities that your stats may drop by one or two percentage points, which in itself is meaningless and in the game means nothing."

You are correct in your statement that I am using technicalities to prove my point. It's not my fault that I have threads / FAQ / Mod Rulings that I can cite regarding the affects and powers of the World Assembly, they exist to prove information and I am using that information to prove a point.

Don't try to diminish the fact that I factually proved to you that the WA affects member nations by obfuscating the situation by nitpicking about the scope of the effects. Do you honestly expect every Resolution to drastically change the politics of any member nation? No. It's something that has a gradual effect.

The effect means something to me, and my nation. I would prefer if we could just put this to bed, and agree that WA member nations have more invested in the decisions of the WA than non-WA states.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:21 am

In order for something to have an effect it has to do something meaningful.

the resolutions do not do anything that has any meaning.

all you have are posts.

i have actual nations cited that shows they are WA members and are not effected by its legislation.

one nation spends no money on defense, even with that WA resolution.

the other has all the political freedoms one can have in the game even though that other resolution passed.

your just haev posts, i have real tangable statistics.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:23 am

Proposal Strength: Significant = High effect on member nations

Proposal strength: Mild = Low effect on member nations


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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:27 am

Serenel wrote:In order for something to have an effect it has to do something meaningful.

the resolutions do not do anything that has any meaning.

all you have are posts.

i have actual nations cited that shows they are WA members and are not effected by its legislation.

one nation spends no money on defense, even with that WA resolution.

the other has all the political freedoms one can have in the game even though that other resolution passed.

your just haev posts, i have real tangable statistics.

Nations that join the World Assembly are not affected by past legislation retroactively. WA member nations are only affected by legislation that passes 'while they are a member of the World Assembly'. Just because something has a relatively minor degree of effect does not mean it has "no effect", as you say. That's a complete falsehood.

Furthermore, the nations you are citing are "cheaters" who leave the World Assembly before the passing of legislation they do not agree with, and then re-join thereby circumventing the legislation. This is stupid, cheating, and pointless in my opinion.

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:34 am

my Defense Spending going from 20% to 21% is not something that i consider an effect on my nation. Its more of an insignificant bleep on the radar if you will. Somthing that will be here today and gone tomorrow, something i wont remember the next day, or even a week from now.

and if the WA resolutions are not applied to nations retroactivly it shows that it really does have no effect.

come on man, the WA has no real significance in this game other then a tool used by invaders and defenders.

the statisitics of its member nations show that clearly.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:40 am

Yeah, that's why all the best economies in the NationStates world are non-WA states. I wonder why that is....

Seriously dude, I have facts to support my arguments.

You have nations that "cheat" and resign from the WA to circumvent laws. Those nations are totally against the spirit of the WA.

Nothing changes the fact that there are effects to the WA nations. You continue to try to diminish them, but they are real.

Again, please don't obfuscate the situation by nitpicking about the scope of the effects. Legislation changes stats of WA nations on a case by case basis. If the proposed strength of the legislation is Significant, then the statistical change will be siginificant. This basically means that your argument about scope is void because the WA Resolutions have the potential to drastically alter statistics in "Freedom Categories".

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Serenel on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:43 am

No it doesnt. and how are the nations i cited cheaters? how do you know they resign then sign back up? even if they do how is that cheating? it is allowed with in the parameters of the game.

and it goes to show the WA is powerless and means nothing.

i am sure just like i found those nations, i can find plenty of nations that have 90+ economies in the WA.
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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:50 am

Citing more nations doesn't mean anything, at all. It just means either

1) They left the WA for a period of time, circumventing laws

2)They haven't been a WA member for a long period of time

3) They've "worked off" the statistical changes imposed by WA legislation

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Re: General Assembly: "Convention on Wartime Deceased"

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