The Structure of the legislative branch

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The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:50 pm

okay, something we have to get down first is how do we want this thing structored?

i heard some comments about a three house system...any other ideas?

personally i think it should be one house, where everyone gets a vote.


Last edited by Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Serenel wrote:okay, something we have to get down first is how do we want this thing structored?

i heard some comments about a three house system...any other ideas?

personally i think it should be one house, where everyone gets a vote.

I second Serenel's comments regarding the regional legislature. I believe ONE house, with universal national representation would be the most fair and efficient manner in which to conduct our legislature.

As for ratification of the Constitution / new legislation: Perhaps a 60% majority is required in order to pass legislation???
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:57 am

As I said in the main Structure thread:

I like the idea of a tricameral legislature, and a virtually powerless executive and a judicial system that is somewhat lacking. Legislature would be led by a Prime Minister with a Cabinet and the Upper House would be the High Chambers (or whatever) and would consist of Quorum of leaders of various political parties in the region who will have almost no authority in Parliament (or whatever). Next, the Middle House, would be the Senate (or whatever) and would consist of all WA Member Nations. And finally the Lower House, the Citizenry (or whatever) and would consist of everyone else.

Again, I believe the Founder should be a powerless region-unifying figurehead. (perhaps he could have emergancy powers, ie if the Executive leader declares it needed)

PRIME MINISTER has the authority to dissolve Parliament at anytime but the Citizenry has the right and duty to bring forth a Vote of No Confidence regarding the Prime Minister.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:20 am

This is a very interesting theoretical approach to a legisaltive branch.

personally i think it is a little too complex, and over complicated, making for the possibility for a lot of confusion with new people, and rather large learning curve, and alot of red tape.

but i do suppose if others want this approach, we could keep those issues in mind and find ways to resolve them.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:22 am

I think it's going to be hard to persuade Serenel and I against our preference for a SINGLE legislative body, universally represented.

This ensures two main things:

1) Completely Democratic lawmaking

2)Efficiency of government


The last thing we want is to become bogged down by massively over-bureaucratic government. While we want to promote participation and discussion, therefore requiring a Parliament, we must remember that efficiency of government is of utmost importance. If we can allow for functionality while maintaining a true democratic 'feel', that is our best option.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:24 am

well Anglenburgh doesnt have to persuade me per say...

it just has to be shown that a majority of other nations want this type of system, and then we can work towards making it functioning, i do not want to stand in the way of a popular idea just because i dont like it.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:26 am

Serenel wrote:well Anglenburgh doesnt have to persuade me per say...

it just has to be shown that a majority of other nations want this type of system, and then we can work towards making it functioning, i do not want to stand in the way of a popular idea just because i dont like it.

I was merely referring to our personal preference. I am by no means alluding to any authoritarian measures to block popular sentiment. That is the last thing I intend to do.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:44 pm

My reasoning behind a tricameral (or even bicameral) is this:

If we include the WA Members in it's own section of the government it serves as a subliminal "push" to get people to join the WA.

The concept of the Political Party leaders having their own house, the more I think about it, seems a little corrupt... So, I would be willing to remove that idea from my suggestion.

Either way I honestly don't mind, whether the legislative be uni/bicameral.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:31 pm

ah yes, governments often us social policy as a form of social engenieering.

however we have to ask, and answer some questions before we know if we want such a policy.

1. do we want to encourage WA membership?

2. What about our military, they will need to use WA nations outside of the region for their operations.

3. Is a WA member a member of both houses.

4. what if we have like four nations in the upperhouse, and two nations in the lower house?

i mean your idea is feasible if the people of this region want that, but there are alot of questions we would have to answer.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:01 pm

I think unicameral legislature for the sake of simplicity and efficiency is most likely our best bet.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:37 pm

Of course we wan to encourage WA membership. But with all the business that I'm going through in RL and most likely everyone else perhaps a unicameral system is just easier, and maybe we could add a second house to the mix once we are better established and we have more active members.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:41 pm

well why would we want to encourage WA membership?

besides the invader/defender axis it doesnt mean that much.

we have an active founder, so the delegate position is rather meaningless at this point.

i could see where you would argue that with more WA nations we are considered to have more influence in the game, but that is really a misnomer, regional influence amoungst other nations doesnt really concern the WA, its more intangible things.

i could also see the argument that we should be prepared when our founder is not active, well first off its a little too soon to worry about that, and second off, there is more then one ways to skin a cat, there are already ideas that i am formulating for if our founder ever goes inactive that we could apply that would make us alot more secure then just trying to get people to endo our dele.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Anglenburgh on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:43 pm

The more WA members we have the more influence our WA delegate has in the WA...
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:50 pm

Anglenburgh wrote:The more WA members we have the more influence our WA delegate has in the WA...

Yeah, I mean that's ideal, but it's not really of incredible importance. We should try to encourage WA membership, but ultimately it shouldn't be a dealbreaker for anything.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:53 pm

right, i understand that.

and like i said before thats fine and good and all, but it doesnt really mean anything.

the WA is as about as useless as the real life UN.

it doesnt effect anything, or really mean that much outside of the invader/defender axis.

the WA passes a resolution that all WA member nations use the same currency...well you still use your own currency, maybe for RP purposes it is effective, but regions generally develop their own RPs seperate from the rest of the NS world, as a region is pretty much a world unto itself.

iunno, i understand what you want to accomplish, i just dont think its that big of a deal how many WA nations we have.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  River on Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:29 pm

May I offer this approach. We have a bicameral system, but where we have a General Assembly comprised of all citizens and an elected Legislature comprised of, say 5 individuals. The GA can propose and vote on legislation, but that legislation would have to pass the elected Legislature to be enacted/to become law. Legislation could be initiated in the Legislature, but would have to be approved by the GA.

I think that this model would satisfy all concerned.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:19 pm

River wrote:May I offer this approach. We have a bicameral system, but where we have a General Assembly comprised of all citizens and an elected Legislature comprised of, say 5 individuals. The GA can propose and vote on legislation, but that legislation would have to pass the elected Legislature to be enacted/to become law. Legislation could be initiated in the Legislature, but would have to be approved by the GA.

I think that this model would satisfy all concerned.

I like this idea, although you all know by this point that I am an advocate of limited government. I would assume that the 'elected Legislators' would also be part of the General Assembly?

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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:26 pm

that is an important question to answer.

i believe if we did have a 'senate' it would undemocratic to be apart of both houses.

also while a senate would be nice, for the elections, and the activity elections create, i still dont know if i personally like the idea, because i think we would just be adding another layer of beuracracy, and creating an 'upper house' that gives the appearence of elitism.

also we would have to find significant duties to bestow upon each one, so we dont just make it a checks and balance thing, and then legislation takes even longer to get passed.

personally i think with a Presidental veto, or something, we would have enough checks and balances.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  River on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:24 am

I have another scathingly brilliant idea. What if we divide up everybody by their registration member number, odds in one group and evens in the other. One group could enact legislation with a two third's majority and the other group could repeal legislation with a one third minority. That would over come the WA syndrome that seems to perpetuate itself in regional legislatures.

Something to think about.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Cool Egg Sandwich on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:00 pm

River wrote:I have another scathingly brilliant idea. What if we divide up everybody by their registration member number, odds in one group and evens in the other. One group could enact legislation with a two third's majority and the other group could repeal legislation with a one third minority. That would over come the WA syndrome that seems to perpetuate itself in regional legislatures.

Something to think about.

Hmm, I'm gonna mill around with this idea a little bit and see if it grows on me.

I would think, at least for the time being, that the most democratic and efficient way to go about the legislature would just be unicameral, but I am definitely open to suggestions.

I would like to see more people participate in this thread, so we could see just where the regional consensus seems to lie.

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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  River on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:16 pm

Slightly off topic...Sadly, I have found that participation on the forums is dependent on what is available on said forum. Also, if you have 10% of the regional population registered and active on the forums, you are doing good.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:52 pm

For simplicity and democracy, i too am for the unicamerial house.

you have thought of an interesting method River, however it would be terribly confusing for new members, i feel, also we would have to deal with Foregin Dignitaries, and the like registering for our forums, and being granted a forum number....i mean it would be feasible, but hard to manage.

also you eliminate choice, what if someone wants to create a law? but they are pushed into the Repealing House of the Legislature...

and i find, usually when peoples choices are limited they lose interest faster, and dont have as much fun.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Knights Inquisitor on Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:43 pm

I must concur for the Unicameral Legislature, one which could propose, discuss, then vote on laws which, if passed, would be submitted to the executive office for approval or veto. Veto should send said law back to the legislature for further debate and possible override of the veto. I would suggest that all registered members of the forum be a part of the legislative body. For the purpose of creating a law, I believe said law should be clearly proposed before the legislature to be discussed further.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  Serenel on Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:48 pm

Knights Inquisitor wrote: I would suggest that all registered members of the forum be a part of the legislative body.

I agree with everythying you just said, save for the part i just quoted.

the reason why i disagree is because sometimes we have foregin dignitaries that register for this forum, because they will have embassies here, and the like, and in future we hope to ally with some regions.

also, i would direct you to Constitution Hall, and the Citizenship thread, where we are discussing having nations apply for citizenship before being granted a seat in the Assembly.
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Re: The Structure of the legislative branch

Post  River on Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:21 pm

Foreign Dignitaries interfering in the internal affairs of the Dirty South? While they are registered on this forum, they should be masked to only have read permissions on such sub-fora as are deemed appropriate for their viewing.
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